This started out as a creative inspiration from reading a retort; what it evolved into will either be a colossal bore or something which might spark further
creative thought...
(the parenthetical was added after my own analysis from copying Sonnet #15 from the archives here; afterwards, a couple of typographical errors were found upon searching the net for another copy, which changed the my analysis accordingly, once again proving how really important punctuation is to poetry...
so anyway, I added my revamp of the interp once I learned of the corrections. This was done in an effort to analyze what Willy did and then, what Michelle wrote. For me to 'retort the retort, I had to first figure out what each poet was espousing. Below is my interp followed by Amanda Mabillard's, from the internet. From there, I interped Michelle's retort and ultimately, retorted HER theory instead of Willy's. Read below to see why.)
(also, note how the front-end capping of all the lines causes the reader to stop and start with respect to following the reasoning here; with nary an endstop in #15, there's a lot a reader has to 'hold onto' as the read occurs. Course, maybe it's just me...)
Shakespeare's Sonnet #15
When I consider every thing that grows
Holds in perfection but a little moment,
>>>everything that grows is a splash of time
That this huge stage presenteth nought but shows
>>>that life is nothing but showy influence
Whereon the stars in secret influence comment;
>>>the stars (the heavens) secretly say/note;
When I perceive that men as plants increase,
Cheered and checked even by the self-same sky,
>>>man grows as flowers, reaching for the skies but held in check by said same even if encouraged to do so; limits are in place
>>>noting how 'lousy' this endrhyme is; sky/memorY-not even slant, imo. But, we let Willy off because he's the 'Master'; am I being too anal here, or what? Still, guess purity was never really in vogue...
Vaunt in their youthful sap, at height decrease,
>>>exalt in youth, make the gap smaller between mankind and sky (heavens/limits)
And wear their brave state out of memory;
>>>fearless in youth, as man ages, they fear the end
Then the conceit of this inconstant stay
>>>the fact one cannot live forever but tries to live that way
Sets you most rich in youth before my sight,
>>>I see you as rich in youth as I age
Where wasteful Time debateth with (D)ecay
To change your day of youth to sullied night(;)
>>>while time and aging argue your ultimate demise,
(note; decay should have been capped to drive the personification home)
(the comma is incorrect; Shakespeare had a semicolon which changes the next couplet's meaning a bit.)
And all in war with Time for love of you,
>>>decay/old age battles time in its love of your flesh
As he takes from you, I engraft you new.
>>>as time and decay take their pound of flesh, I give you new life much as your youth imprints me
(My love will make you new/young; battle between author and Time=though analysis states 'new through verse', I don't see anything that would hint at this, so I'm taking the line more literally)
SONNET 15
--PARAPHRASE
When I consider every thing that grows
--When I think that everything that grows
Holds in perfection but a little moment,
--Has but a brief moment of perfection,
That this huge stage presenteth nought but shows
--And that the world is merely a stage upon which
Whereon the stars in secret influence comment;
--The stars, through their hidden influence, exert their illusions (ie. 'shows' - see above line);
When I perceive that men as plants increase,
--When I observe that men grow as plants do,
Cheered and cheque'd even by the self-same sky,
--Encouraged and nourished by the sky that holds the stars,
Vaunt in their youthful sap, at height decrease,
--And that they flaunt their youthful vitality, and after reaching their prime begin to decline,
And wear their brave state out of memory;
--Until their youth has passed from memory;
Then the conceit of this inconstant stay
--Then the thought of this short stay (on earth)
Sets you most rich in youth before my sight,
--Brings you in the prime of your youth vividly before my eyes,
Where wasteful Time debateth with Decay,
--Where the destroyer Time fights against Decay,
To change your day of youth to sullied night;
--To change brightness of your youth to the dark night of old age;
And all in war with Time for love of you,
--Because I love you I declare war against Time, and
As he takes from you, I engraft you new.
--As he takes from you, I renew your life (in my verse).
ANALYSIS
[Line 3]* - Shakespeare's first reference to the world as a 'stage'. See Jaques' famous speech in As You Like It: "All the world's a stage/And all the men and women merely players" (II.vii).
[Line 4]* - "It was generally believed that man's behaviour and events were influenced, though not determined, by the stars ('influence' is a technical astrological term = ethereal fluid flowing from the stars, affecting men and events), and such influence is described as 'secret' because it worked behind man's back ('unheard') like a political cabal or theatrical claque. Astrologers, of course, claimed to penetrate this 'secret influence'. [Blakemore Evans, ed. Sonnets. Cambridge: UP, 1996, 128]
[Lines 5-8]* - Line 5 marks the beginning of a conceit based on flowers. Shakespeare uses a conceit of this kind in several sonnets, such as sonnet 5 (13-14), sonnet 6 (1-2), and sonnet 12 (2-12).
[Line 14]* - Thus the poet defeats both the ravages of time and the onset of Decay as he plants ('engrafts') his friend anew.
The group of sonnets 15-19 has been referred to as the third stage of Shakespeare's sonnets, in which the poet strives to immortalize his dear friend in verse, thereby saving him from the ravages of all-consuming Time. No line states more clearly this underlying theme in the sonnets than line 13: "And all in war with Time for love of you". For more information on the theme of time in Shakespeare's sonnets, please see my analysis of Sonnets 18 and 19.
Notice the significant parallels between Sonnets 15 and 12. Although the theme of sonnet 12 - the necessity of procreation - is slightly different from the theme of sonnet 15, they are nonetheless strikingly similar in style. "The two texts exhibit virtually identical sentence structures: each has (I) dependent "When" - clauses in the octave, one at the start of each quatrain (though Sonnet 12 has another at line 3), (2) a principal "Then" - clause, making up the third quatrain, and (3) a clausally independent couplet attached by "And". Moreoever, in the octave of each, the "I" ponders the universality of temporal decay, especially the kind that is ruinous to plant and human life; in the sestet he switches from universal to particular, and also to second-person address, to focus these melancholy reflections specifically upon the friend. [Joseph Pequignew. Such is my Love. Chicago: UP, 1985, 23-4]
How to Cite this Article
Mabillard, Amanda. "An Analysis of Shakespeare's Sonnet 15". Shakespeare Online. 2000. http://www.shakespeare-online.com
...Next, Michelle's retort and my interp;
Retort to #15 Flourish of Foxgloves
Where foxgloves rocket up, their purple bells
extol the peak of spring in petal chime.
As yellow jackets drink from nectar wells,
white flutters swirl where tender currents climb.
>>>exalting spring, rebirth
In stoic rows of sentries, cedars stand
for ages watching seasons march around.
Each cedar marks a year by cambered band,
while fleeting foxgloves molder underground.
>>>noting sentries/witnesses to rebirth, that the sentries remain while the spring must die to be renewed
You peer from timber heights to mountain glen
and mourn the violet blooms before they're done.
These buds may burst and spill to earth, but then
next spring they'll blossom first to praise the sun.
>>>noting that the aged one grieves the time of such short beauty, of the 'dying' prior to any rebirth
A life's not weighed by sum of years alive,
but verity of color that survives.
>>>self explanatory; you can't judge a life by how many years alive but rather, on the truth of the color that remains.
Okay, I don't see how this 'retort' is exactly that-a retort. Where's the argument to what Shakespeare wrote? I think this 'retort' is misaligned, Michelle; what you've espoused does not counter what Willy was saying albeit you proffer an interesting thesis. So, I WAS going to retort YOUR retort because it seemed interesting; now, I have to re-evaluate because Willy was not talking about measuring life by how long one lives but rather, that love can make one new, that the author sees this person in the prime of their youth-no matter that age is happening-and will renew that same youth/spirit with/in love (or if you follow the analysis, with/in verse). So, how to retort? I agree with Willy's assumption so, tis hard to retort and so, I'll do what I originally was intending; retort your poem with my own thesis;
Retorting the Retort; Flourish of Existence
Deep vales whose lesions we've traversed, remain.
The heights enclose the gap between the mind
and heart until the difference peaks can claim
are whiles of wind-blown dust of us; we'll find
that trees and rings prescribing arcs of Time
defied Decay with every memory's seed
and all the slope is dotted with the rhyme
of root and ever-spreading grasp of need.
The husk of cedar in its throes toward oak,
is riven, bent and hollowed sure and yet-
its kept the hill from sliding down; though broke,
in fluent Time's conceit, inconstance sets;
it's those we leave behind with purposed gifts
that binds the chasm peak and vale has reft.
04-11-07
>>>and in interping my retort; it is in those we leave behind with a purpose that matters. The hills and vales of our life contain both beauty and decay, that the hills/peaks we aspire to are built on mountains we uplift. To bridge the void between the 'heights' and 'depths', the trees (us) have to set roots to hold the mountain up or else, erosion will have it slide into the depths we're trying to remain above. The seedlings we leave behind-children, friends, family-are there to put their own roots down and hold the same soil even though we may be dead and gone. In this 'purpose', it doesn't matter how long one is alive (Michelle's assertion) nor does it matter the truth of the colors we leave (some might symbolize this as the children of which I spoke but tend to look at this 'color truth' as the works of beauty we create-might be a completely parallel thesis, but I chose to take the spirit of Michelle's poem and put my aim on it) but that the purpose remain alive; a legacy if you will. The truth of this color has no meaning without an aim, I guess is what I'm asserting. If everything has meaning than something must encompass it all for each to exist at all.
Well, such is what reading poetry and thinking about what I'm reading, can do. Though I started out only to have some fun with a retort of my own and chain it to Michelle's, the actual thought process was more worthy than perhaps my sonnet ever can be.
Anyway, hope this didn't waste anyone's time...
(the parenthetical was added after my own analysis from copying Sonnet #15 from the archives here; afterwards, a couple of typographical errors were found upon searching the net for another copy, which changed the my analysis accordingly, once again proving how really important punctuation is to poetry...
so anyway, I added my revamp of the interp once I learned of the corrections. This was done in an effort to analyze what Willy did and then, what Michelle wrote. For me to 'retort the retort, I had to first figure out what each poet was espousing. Below is my interp followed by Amanda Mabillard's, from the internet. From there, I interped Michelle's retort and ultimately, retorted HER theory instead of Willy's. Read below to see why.)
(also, note how the front-end capping of all the lines causes the reader to stop and start with respect to following the reasoning here; with nary an endstop in #15, there's a lot a reader has to 'hold onto' as the read occurs. Course, maybe it's just me...)
Shakespeare's Sonnet #15
When I consider every thing that grows
Holds in perfection but a little moment,
>>>everything that grows is a splash of time
That this huge stage presenteth nought but shows
>>>that life is nothing but showy influence
Whereon the stars in secret influence comment;
>>>the stars (the heavens) secretly say/note;
When I perceive that men as plants increase,
Cheered and checked even by the self-same sky,
>>>man grows as flowers, reaching for the skies but held in check by said same even if encouraged to do so; limits are in place
>>>noting how 'lousy' this endrhyme is; sky/memorY-not even slant, imo. But, we let Willy off because he's the 'Master'; am I being too anal here, or what? Still, guess purity was never really in vogue...
Vaunt in their youthful sap, at height decrease,
>>>exalt in youth, make the gap smaller between mankind and sky (heavens/limits)
And wear their brave state out of memory;
>>>fearless in youth, as man ages, they fear the end
Then the conceit of this inconstant stay
>>>the fact one cannot live forever but tries to live that way
Sets you most rich in youth before my sight,
>>>I see you as rich in youth as I age
Where wasteful Time debateth with (D)ecay
To change your day of youth to sullied night(;)
>>>while time and aging argue your ultimate demise,
(note; decay should have been capped to drive the personification home)
(the comma is incorrect; Shakespeare had a semicolon which changes the next couplet's meaning a bit.)
And all in war with Time for love of you,
>>>decay/old age battles time in its love of your flesh
As he takes from you, I engraft you new.
>>>as time and decay take their pound of flesh, I give you new life much as your youth imprints me
(My love will make you new/young; battle between author and Time=though analysis states 'new through verse', I don't see anything that would hint at this, so I'm taking the line more literally)
SONNET 15
--PARAPHRASE
When I consider every thing that grows
--When I think that everything that grows
Holds in perfection but a little moment,
--Has but a brief moment of perfection,
That this huge stage presenteth nought but shows
--And that the world is merely a stage upon which
Whereon the stars in secret influence comment;
--The stars, through their hidden influence, exert their illusions (ie. 'shows' - see above line);
When I perceive that men as plants increase,
--When I observe that men grow as plants do,
Cheered and cheque'd even by the self-same sky,
--Encouraged and nourished by the sky that holds the stars,
Vaunt in their youthful sap, at height decrease,
--And that they flaunt their youthful vitality, and after reaching their prime begin to decline,
And wear their brave state out of memory;
--Until their youth has passed from memory;
Then the conceit of this inconstant stay
--Then the thought of this short stay (on earth)
Sets you most rich in youth before my sight,
--Brings you in the prime of your youth vividly before my eyes,
Where wasteful Time debateth with Decay,
--Where the destroyer Time fights against Decay,
To change your day of youth to sullied night;
--To change brightness of your youth to the dark night of old age;
And all in war with Time for love of you,
--Because I love you I declare war against Time, and
As he takes from you, I engraft you new.
--As he takes from you, I renew your life (in my verse).
ANALYSIS
[Line 3]* - Shakespeare's first reference to the world as a 'stage'. See Jaques' famous speech in As You Like It: "All the world's a stage/And all the men and women merely players" (II.vii).
[Line 4]* - "It was generally believed that man's behaviour and events were influenced, though not determined, by the stars ('influence' is a technical astrological term = ethereal fluid flowing from the stars, affecting men and events), and such influence is described as 'secret' because it worked behind man's back ('unheard') like a political cabal or theatrical claque. Astrologers, of course, claimed to penetrate this 'secret influence'. [Blakemore Evans, ed. Sonnets. Cambridge: UP, 1996, 128]
[Lines 5-8]* - Line 5 marks the beginning of a conceit based on flowers. Shakespeare uses a conceit of this kind in several sonnets, such as sonnet 5 (13-14), sonnet 6 (1-2), and sonnet 12 (2-12).
[Line 14]* - Thus the poet defeats both the ravages of time and the onset of Decay as he plants ('engrafts') his friend anew.
The group of sonnets 15-19 has been referred to as the third stage of Shakespeare's sonnets, in which the poet strives to immortalize his dear friend in verse, thereby saving him from the ravages of all-consuming Time. No line states more clearly this underlying theme in the sonnets than line 13: "And all in war with Time for love of you". For more information on the theme of time in Shakespeare's sonnets, please see my analysis of Sonnets 18 and 19.
Notice the significant parallels between Sonnets 15 and 12. Although the theme of sonnet 12 - the necessity of procreation - is slightly different from the theme of sonnet 15, they are nonetheless strikingly similar in style. "The two texts exhibit virtually identical sentence structures: each has (I) dependent "When" - clauses in the octave, one at the start of each quatrain (though Sonnet 12 has another at line 3), (2) a principal "Then" - clause, making up the third quatrain, and (3) a clausally independent couplet attached by "And". Moreoever, in the octave of each, the "I" ponders the universality of temporal decay, especially the kind that is ruinous to plant and human life; in the sestet he switches from universal to particular, and also to second-person address, to focus these melancholy reflections specifically upon the friend. [Joseph Pequignew. Such is my Love. Chicago: UP, 1985, 23-4]
How to Cite this Article
Mabillard, Amanda. "An Analysis of Shakespeare's Sonnet 15". Shakespeare Online. 2000. http://www.shakespeare-online.com
...Next, Michelle's retort and my interp;
Retort to #15 Flourish of Foxgloves
Where foxgloves rocket up, their purple bells
extol the peak of spring in petal chime.
As yellow jackets drink from nectar wells,
white flutters swirl where tender currents climb.
>>>exalting spring, rebirth
In stoic rows of sentries, cedars stand
for ages watching seasons march around.
Each cedar marks a year by cambered band,
while fleeting foxgloves molder underground.
>>>noting sentries/witnesses to rebirth, that the sentries remain while the spring must die to be renewed
You peer from timber heights to mountain glen
and mourn the violet blooms before they're done.
These buds may burst and spill to earth, but then
next spring they'll blossom first to praise the sun.
>>>noting that the aged one grieves the time of such short beauty, of the 'dying' prior to any rebirth
A life's not weighed by sum of years alive,
but verity of color that survives.
>>>self explanatory; you can't judge a life by how many years alive but rather, on the truth of the color that remains.
Okay, I don't see how this 'retort' is exactly that-a retort. Where's the argument to what Shakespeare wrote? I think this 'retort' is misaligned, Michelle; what you've espoused does not counter what Willy was saying albeit you proffer an interesting thesis. So, I WAS going to retort YOUR retort because it seemed interesting; now, I have to re-evaluate because Willy was not talking about measuring life by how long one lives but rather, that love can make one new, that the author sees this person in the prime of their youth-no matter that age is happening-and will renew that same youth/spirit with/in love (or if you follow the analysis, with/in verse). So, how to retort? I agree with Willy's assumption so, tis hard to retort and so, I'll do what I originally was intending; retort your poem with my own thesis;
Retorting the Retort; Flourish of Existence
Deep vales whose lesions we've traversed, remain.
The heights enclose the gap between the mind
and heart until the difference peaks can claim
are whiles of wind-blown dust of us; we'll find
that trees and rings prescribing arcs of Time
defied Decay with every memory's seed
and all the slope is dotted with the rhyme
of root and ever-spreading grasp of need.
The husk of cedar in its throes toward oak,
is riven, bent and hollowed sure and yet-
its kept the hill from sliding down; though broke,
in fluent Time's conceit, inconstance sets;
it's those we leave behind with purposed gifts
that binds the chasm peak and vale has reft.
04-11-07
>>>and in interping my retort; it is in those we leave behind with a purpose that matters. The hills and vales of our life contain both beauty and decay, that the hills/peaks we aspire to are built on mountains we uplift. To bridge the void between the 'heights' and 'depths', the trees (us) have to set roots to hold the mountain up or else, erosion will have it slide into the depths we're trying to remain above. The seedlings we leave behind-children, friends, family-are there to put their own roots down and hold the same soil even though we may be dead and gone. In this 'purpose', it doesn't matter how long one is alive (Michelle's assertion) nor does it matter the truth of the colors we leave (some might symbolize this as the children of which I spoke but tend to look at this 'color truth' as the works of beauty we create-might be a completely parallel thesis, but I chose to take the spirit of Michelle's poem and put my aim on it) but that the purpose remain alive; a legacy if you will. The truth of this color has no meaning without an aim, I guess is what I'm asserting. If everything has meaning than something must encompass it all for each to exist at all.
Well, such is what reading poetry and thinking about what I'm reading, can do. Though I started out only to have some fun with a retort of my own and chain it to Michelle's, the actual thought process was more worthy than perhaps my sonnet ever can be.
Anyway, hope this didn't waste anyone's time...
